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Because you have never seen a Hang, I think you have seen this on a photo. Please post this photo that I can understand what you mean with this wrinkles.



Yeah, you are a smart guy. But you are not a Hang player. You never listened to a Hang in real life. You disagreed to some important statements a made on the basis of concrete Hang playing experience for over five years. To say you have a deep understanding of the acoustic science and phenomena of the Hang is a bold statement without haven't ever listened to a Hang. You don't know these phenomena. Nobody can know them without using his ears.

Michael

You know full well what I'm talking about. And I won't waste my time any further finding a photo for you or debating these issues with you. Yes I've seen it in photos, but I also happen to know about the wrinkling from personal experience and its subsequent instability and I know the solution to eliminating it. I also know how to apply the scientific principles that they have used.

Feel free to accuse me of whatever you wish. We will apparently never agree. So we are done.

And I will leave it to you and any other member of this forum as to whether you want to know the truth from Felix and Sabina.

If you want the truth, then go ahead, ask them.

Eric

For the record, I never said I had a deep understanding. I said I had a much deeper understanding than I had indicated.

I also never claimed to be a Hang player or an expert on the Hang. However I have extensive knowledge regarding the acoustic science and phenomena of the Hang.

But finally, this topic was about why people are focused on their statements about tuning. So why don't you just ask Felix and Sabina?


Peace to you and goodbye.

Are you interested in a construcktive discussion or not?

No I haven't any clue what you mean with "wrinkles" around the domes. And I'm unsure in which meaning you have used it. My English German dictionary gives me a number of meanings: Falte, Kniff, Knitter, Quetschfalte, Runzel. And what is an early Hang? 2001? 2003? 2005? I don't know where I have to look for what. Perhaps you mean the border around the tone fields of very old Hanghang? But they are not around the dome but around the tone field. My Hang from 2005 has nothing around the domes that I would call wrinkle.

Why do you tell me about secret knowledge you have but never come to the concrete? If there is something to talk about put it on the table.

Michael

Hello,

I am also not kwow, what you mean with "wrinkles". I have seen a lot of very early Hanghang. And I played a lot.
Very Early Hanghang have little spot? pimple? bump? (... I dont find a good englisch word. I hope you know what I mean.) in the center of the tone field.
This was a mark from the tools Panart used a this time.

But I will ask the Hangmakers. Maybe they have a idea what you mean.
For sure the Hangmakers learned something on their way. They changed details over the time.
But there where never a problem with steadiness of the tuning.
I remember, that the Hang is not Panarts first project. They worked for years with nitrided steel, before they made the first Hang.

Frank

First, I think it really depends on how one defines the "Hang concept." In some aspects, yes, but in some aspects, no. If you are saying an instrument that NEVER needs tuning unless it has suffered some accident, I would say that that is an evolution in viewpoint and position from PANArt. Yes, the Hang booklet of 2008 did state that the Hang holds its tuning. But it has taken them 10 years to move to a policy of no longer retuning their creations, as was state in “The Call of Iron.”

I would also like to point out that Kyle's expectations about whether the Halo will stay in tune or not has changed somewhat based on empirical evidence. Yes, it was his initial expectation that a Halo would need to be periodically retuned to sound its best. He examined my Halo after I had owned it more than a year and determined that it didn’t need any retuning. (He had his hammers with him, and didn’t even take them out. He did tune some other handpans that had tuning issues at that time.) The Halo is made of thicker steel than a Hang, and it can tolerate significantly more force before distorting. Who knows, maybe in 8 more years, Kyle will determine that only Halos that have been mistreated will require a retuning.

Finally, regarding integrating the Gu and Ding, I find it to be a noticeable, but very subtle difference. And one’s playing position to do so can be a challenge to find and maintain for some players. I have experimented with a number of listeners, and many of them could not hear any difference that they could describe (between partially covering the Gu and not). Many players do not integrate Gu and Ding when they play, but for many listeners, the Hang still has a magical and captivating sound (as evidenced by the overwhelming number of requests for a Hang).

I've been reading this thread with interest. I've had many thoughts but I'm not sure yet which ones to share! When I sort my head out, I'll be back...